I get what you mean, but that would be way to cool. People would just take an atidote before going into battle. How it is, it you get bitten 8 times by something with poison you have to take 8 antidotes. You should be able to just take one and be fine no matter how much poison you have in your system because you have a small amount of an antidote in there too.

Poison etc.

I agree with Nell, that would be way too cool.
I still don't have a nice simple pay system, any ideas?
I agree that I don't like how long it takes to make spells but consider this:
Anything that has to go through the GM must be limited. This is why magic items take time to make. I don't care if you have 1000 gold, you can't walk up to me and say "I had 50 magic items made today, what are all the flaws?" I have to have time to roll up, weight and consider all the factors, and come up with a meaningful answer. So spell need to take time too. If people can come up and say, "Hey and want to make the spell in ball form that says "I use a ball to move your soul into my hand." and I want it to be able to pull their spirit into my hand, I have 37 mana to use, what does it do? And I also want the spell.... and the other spell..... and this other one that says.... do they all work?
If Elder Sorcery is going to be kept in check, it must be edited by a GM and kept in game balance. Those sort of choices can't be made on the fly very well, I have to think them through and if I have people walking up to me with 6 spells to roll and consider for, we will never actually play FanWar.
Perhaps a neutral ground could be reached by enforcing the "you must write down every spell you have and what it does in you Spell book" rule. Not many people actually do this, but if they did, then they could write down a new spell they want and give it to me to approve (Austin already does this by emailing me his spell attempts) and then I can write back when it is convenient. Remember that I have a lot of things to manage and if I am getting 20 notes a week with Elder Sorcery attempts, I can't manage them all and do it well. There has to be limit to how much time can be spent so that I am not inundated. I really don't care if mages get paid during that time (though personally I like that they don't, it is like you have to make a bunch of money so you can survive while you are making your next spell, a system that mirrors many other game systems).
On another note, I like the fix for Giant Growth (either it is a BC Stationary Call, no mana OR it is a 1 Mana cost use that is IC and not stationary). Are there any other spells or skills that we need to tweak or fix. What about the Species Creation Chart. Anything we want to add, or remove or change?

Christopher

Other Fixes:

Beyond the potion fix, there is another fix I have been working on and want to playtest. The game seems very muddy to me right now. Lots of people who don't know what things do, are not familiar with the rule book, and/or are using abilities in the wrong way. In order to fix this problem, Marcus, Lanelle and I discussed a "forced incant" fix that might make the game easier for beginners. The fix would read like this:
"All spells and skills that are used without the FULL incant fumble."
This means that you MUST say, "With Inferno Aura I deal 4 damage." Every time or it fumbles (this will be true for Monsters too). The reason we thought of this fix is that while we have allowed monsters to not have to do the full incant, it actually makes more problems that way. Kids learn the no incant version and then use it when they are a character. Also, incants were designed to make the game easier for beginners because what the spell does is stated every time and so the skill are reinforced every time they are used. You don't have to know what Fireball does if the cast says, "With Fireball I deal 4 damage." instead of just "Fireball!" Also, if you have to say "Snare: I pin your foot for your ROR." The player knows exactly what happens to them. Furthermore, the players will hear, over and over again, what all the skills and spells do, so they will learn them as they play, even if they are not being used on them. For ease of play, we can make a rule that for IC type attacks you only have to have said the Name of the Skill/Spell before you make contact, but then are required to complete the incant for it to actually happen. For example, I could swing at an opponent and say "Hack..." as I hit their arm, but then unless I finsih the incant and say "... you limb is useless." The skill fumbles. This would be more of a standing rule to make attack based abilities more usuably so that you aren't trying to say, "Snare: I pin your leg for you ROR" and then strike for the leg, which would slow down those kinds of attacks a lot.
PROS: Reinforces rules, keeps Aura's from getting out of control, keeps spells and skills from being used too quickly in succession. Gives time for players to consider what happened.
CONS: Very wordy, lots to remember, harder for new players to remember what the incants are for the monsters they are playing.

Time Fix:

Another piece that I think would fix a lot of FanWar problems is the "duration" problem. We have ROR for a reason, so that duration does not have to be specified. Yet, we still have tons of abilities that have specific durations. I propose a time fix, in which durations fall into three catagories, ROR in seconds, ROR in minutes, and the until healed type duration. This would cut down on incants too. Instead of "With Light Ray you deal no damage for four times your ROR." We would have simply, "With Light Ray you deal no damage for your ROR." If you think about it their arn't that many abilities that actually have 4X your ROR in them, so they are kind-of obsolete. They only had the 4X ROR initially because we were using a system that needed to be able to be amplified. Fireballs use to be able to be powered up from 1 damage to 4, and Ice Ball needed to do the same thing. Now the system doesn't really need it. The trick will be how to change them and keep them powerful. Here are the options I can see
#1 4X ROR becomes, ROR in Minuets (powerful!)
#2 4X ROR becomes, ROR in seconds (weaker)
#3 4XROR becomes, ROR in seconds but an added effect like damage! This could mean that maybe Light Ray and Ice Ball would deal 1 damage as well as their desired effect.
#4 4X ROR could become "until healed" type effects (very powerful).

Things to consider-
The only spells/skills that currently have the 4X ROR amount are as follows
Healing Factor (need to be careful with this one!)
Ice Ball
Blizzard
Amplified Shock Touch (which is actually 5X ROR)
Light Ray

With such a short list, it seems a prudent change, but how to keep game balance.

Another nice edit to incants might be to eliminate the "for your ROR in seconds" from all incants and just make a standing rule that all duration effects are for your ROR in seconds unless otherwise stated. So Snare would say "Snare: I pin your leg." And fear would be "With fear touch I scare you." If something lasts your ROR in minutes you could just add "for minutes." to the end of the incant, such as "With Ice ball I freeze you for minutes." With things that are condition based, you could add the condition, like "Impale: you are immobile until healed."
Another approach to this would be more in keeping with our current system and say that all effects are considered of until healed duration unless you say otherwise. So you would have to say "With Fear touch I scare you for seconds." Or "With Ice Ball I freeze you for minutes." But you could just say "Impale: you are immobile." And "Hack: you limb us useless."

Some thoughts on Giant Strength: While I like the "no mana cost" version, it seems to me that it might be more like Magic The Gathering, if it still cost a mana but perhaps was an IC call, mobile but only last your ROR, and gave you +3 to size as well as Giant Strength! This would mean that Nature Mages could spend a Mana and grow 3 sizes instantly and have Giant Strength and could have their ROR to lay down some whupass on the monsters! Perhaps this version is a bit too powerful, maybe just +1 size, but the idea I think is a good one. The only thing I don't like is that the Nature Mage also has Instant Transmute to use mana on and will have to choose between the two. No other mage (or class I can think of- well thief I guess) has two abilities requiring Mana below 5th lvl. (Something I just thought of and am editing in here is perhaps we could combine Instant Transmute and Giant Growth for a +4 HP, +1 Size, Giant Strength type effect that is VERY Magic the Gathering). Maybe you pay a Mana and get Giant Strength, +4 HP and +1 Size for your ROR. Lay down the whupass with that! That would also open up a whole new slot for Nature Mage and we could come up with a new Spell to put at either lvl 4 or lvl 2 depending on where we thing Giant Growth should be).

Some thoughts on mana: It seems to me that another little fix we should have is something in the journeymen class at first or second lvl that requires mana to do. This would make it more ballanced to be a hobbit or human over a Dwarf of Centaur. Right now, mana is a lot like ROR, obsolete until you are high level. So if we make something, anything, that requires mana to do at Journeymen level then we are giving the advantage back to the characters with higher mana. Here are some ideas.
#1 Bring back Basic Healing, but make it heal 4 HP for 1 mana. We could play around with the time it takes to make it fair, like your ROR in minuets or make it an OUT or something. The nice thing about this is that since it is a spell, players would have to ditch armor if they want to be able to do it.
#2 A simple identify spell?
#3 We could work Mana into Trade Crafts somehow and perhaps allow you to spend mana on them to increase your effectiveness on a given try. So you could spend a mana on Area Search and increase it by a given amount for that one attempt. This might open up a whole new range of Trade/Craft combos, like spending a mana on Blacksmithing so you can make the sword right now, instead of spending the Days. I am not saying that is the solution, but something like that might work to make mana important at the journeymen level....

I was just thinking about this last idea and it seems really the best idea because it does all the other things. Consider that you could have a Trade/Craft called Healer. You can heal 1 HP of a player per lvl in Healer you have per day. Let's suppose that spending a Mana on your Trade craft doubles it's proficiency for that one attempt. A lvl 2 Healer could then spend a Mana to heal someone for 4 HP (as an OUT of course, since all Trade/Crafts are OUTS). The same could be said of a Historian, who could double her effective Identify for one attempt by spending a mana. Thus, we don't need Basic Healing OR a simple Identify because the Trade/Crafts can already do all that and working Mana into them makes mana needed by EVERYONE not just those who choose to get Basic Healing or Identify-

So, that leaves us with how do we work Mana into Trade Crafts? I like how Trade Crafts have two functions right now, a quick use, and a over the week type effect, and I don't want to change that. But if we could somehow make the mana effect either one or both or add another effect, that would be great. (on obvious note of consideration is that if we do have a double proficiency type bonus here, it will NOT be cumulative per mana spent, and it will only double your natural levels in the skill, not level given by Trade Clothes, magic items, or other such things). Ideas?

Christopher

Playtest Changes:

Here is what we came up with at the playtest and the Junior League event.

(1) Potions and Herbs take your ROR to take effect.
(2) You can reset someones unconsciousness by either knocking them out or just damaging them (or doing anything that would cause them to loose consciousness). This puts another "unconsciousness" on the stack and counteracts their wake up call.
(3) We tried out a new skill called "Snare Touch" for Nature Mages which is UB. We also moved Giant Strength up to lvl 4 and added +4 HP and +1 size as well as making it mobile and IC. At the Junior League event, I was talking to Tyson and Cora and Lanelle about it and we thought it was a bit too much. We suddenly came up with a rather novel solution which is a follows:
a) Giant Growth stays where it is but costs no mana, only gives you Giant Strength and +1 size, is UB and says, "You must be stationary for your ROR." This way it is both an offensive and defensive weapon. You can use it on yourself or your friends to make them strong and bigger, but they can't move, even if they want to! You can also use it on your enemies to pin them in place for their ROR (though they get Giant Strength). There is an Invoke cost for it as well, to make it harder to do.
b) We leave Instant Transmute right were it is and don't do anything to it.
(4) We also decided not to do anything about the 4X ROR thing currently.
(5) We decided to add an ability to Trade Crafts that allows you to double your effective lvl in a trade craft for one encounter by paying a mana. This does not stack, and it does not work with Magic Items or trade cloths, it only doubles the levels you actually have learned.
(6) I am adding a Trade Craft under the Other category which is Healer. You can heal 1 HP per day per lvl in Healer you have. Keep in mind this is an OUT and takes 10 minutes. You can divide the healing up to heal over the day and you can spend a Mana to double your proficiency for one encounter which means that you could heal your levels worth again if you spend a mana. You can Work as a Medic or Doctor in town, usually only using your levels on people who are at -2 to bring them to -1 and then using First Aid to stabilize them.

so giant growth is pretty much how it used to be except that now you get one moer size to? or was that just one of our options when we were first changing it because I remember it being like that but I liked it how we had it at the playtest it is so what a nature mage is for and gives them more power which I think balances them out some more for offensive power which they didn't really have before.

Giant Strength:

The modification for Giant Strength we are trying right now is on that is a Forced Stationary effect. The will read, "You ARE stationary for your ROR and your gain Giant Strength and +1 size." This is not an option that you can stop when you move like Brace, Banding, or Combat Shimmering. The person who gets the spell cast on them IS stationary for their ROR. Giant Strength will be listed as a UB touch spell. Thus, you can hit people with it to pin them in place, just don't get to close after that or you are going to take a lot of damage. You can also use it on yourself or your friends to make them beef-cake but they would be vulnerable because they can't move from where they are. It will cost no mana, just an Invoke cost, and that way it will be used a lot. In a way, we get the best of both worlds with this setup. You get the +1 size and Giant Strength as before, and with Instant Transmute, you get the HP also. At 4th lvl Nature mage looks a lot like it did at the playtest, except they can't run around and beat down things, and when they pin people down, those people are Strong so watch out.

Christopher

So besides going over potions again and testing giant strength what are we going to playtest on Sunday?

Why wouldn't they be able to move though, they have a vastly increase muscle mass or their muscles have been altered to be increadibly compact and powerful. What would be the reasoning for a person who is as strong as a giant to no longer be able to move. (Sorry for being picky) this just doesn't make any sense to me.

just an interesting thought, maybe since the giant strength is tied in with a rooting effect we could call it might of oaks, or something else which reflects the nature ( no pun intended) of the new skill, because your essentially binding someone to the earth, but this connection increases their physical power and size, alternately we could call it strength of earth, or something else that reflects, because the spell doesnt really just turn them into giants anymore, also that would leave giant strength as a racial ability, which may prevent some confusion between the two effects, otherwise it may be implied that giants are immobile, which kinda makes them less threatening. my only concern is my suggestions may be too wordy, and i dont know what the incant would be, also i went to big lots and they were out of the material for new swords i told you about, so hopefully either you or some of the the local crew i showed them to picked some up, that would explain them being sold out. anyway i will be bringing my 2 demo swords to the event, anything specific planned for playtests? any chance of actual character world events? feel free to post or email me back

brandon

The reason why it is still called giant strength is the reason that you brought up, the other titles you came up with (like the ones we came up with) were to wordy and we are trying to get a title that can also be and incant so people aren't confused with "but wait that is called this but you said that." We were suggesting names before but for now it is still giant strength because it is familiar and does about the same thing as it did before. Right now we are just seeing if it works in game balance and we will get the details like name and reason you stay stationary when the mechanics are solid. We usually do character things near the end of the day (like last time). This is after we do stuff like character brawls and discussion then Chris does a mission in the roekron world and all deaths etc. count and what you do helps the land (it also lets us test the new rules because we use them in the mission).

There's no conflict with giants. They have Giant Strength, not Giant Growth (which gives you Giant Strength along with the downside of being immobile).

As far as the flavor reasons for not being able to move, sure your muscle mass has suddenly increased by a huge amount, but has your skeletal structure? If you try to run with a normal skeleton and magically enhanced muscles it's not built to support, you're going to break things and it'll be a mess. So sure, you can hurl boulders, but you need to stand still and focus on it to make sure you don't move wrong.

But then you wouldn't be able to attack if we use that logic. Your muscles would shatter your bones when you attacked or moved your arms, no amount of focusing will help your bones withstand the stress levels you are talking about. So it would probably kill put the person who moved under that at -1 and limbs hacked.

Hello all FanWar Crews:

Here are the items that have been playtested so far this year and the current standings of them.


Giant Growth adjustment (Giant Growth is free, last for the players ROR and forces the player to remain stationary).

Forced Incants: If a player does not state the full Incant for any Spell OR Skill, the defending player may call a Miscast and take no effect.

Mana Boost Trade Crafts: Any player may spend 1 mana to double their proficiency in a Trade Craft for 1 encounter or 1 use (this does not stack).

Potions take time to work: All potions take your ROR to take their effect (even poisons and Antidotes).

Arrows are Impact Weapons (all bows now do +1 damage like Axes, Hammers and Flails).

Mounts in Combat: (Players with a Horse riding trade craft can ride mounts into combat, designated by the leapard print tabars hung from the belt. These mounts must be attacked first, and attacks against that player hit their mount first (except for kill zone, which kills the rider, not the mount). Mounts are very rare and hard to ride, even horses, as well as very expensive, and thus they will not often be encountered. Real battle mounts will be played by an additional player whenever possible.

One Hit Kill Zone: (any amount of damage to the kill zone kills the player - this superseeds the old rule of 2 or more damage).


All the above rules have been tested and seemed to work very. While we thought that one hit kill zone would be way more lethal, it wasn't. All it did was make it so that swords were cool again and restored a balance to combat style. While the impact weapons do lots of damage, the sword can poke the kill zone easier, so it evens out. The biggest problem was martial arts which became really, really cool, especially for specters!
Arrows are so much cooler now, everyone agrees on that one!
Mounts are still clunky but they work for now and it adds an interesting twist, since you can heal your mount etc. It is like having more HP. We all agreed that you have to have level in a specific animal to ride it and that 10 levels in one animal are needed to ride it in combat. I am not sure of the effect of each level on your riding skill and what that does but it worked alright. An interesting effect was that when the rider was killed, we had players put on the leopard print sash across their shoulder and they could play as their mount, attach at random, and out of control! This also brought up riding familiars which is new and interesting.

Thoughts, comments, ideas?

Christopher

I still seem to oppose the one hit kill zone thing it seems to make things that shouldn't be cool way to cool. It balances swords I agree but if you look beyond that now like you said specters (and anything that can go ethereal instantly that can get martial arts) are way to cool I think maybe that the one damage kill should only be one of the kill zones either the front or the back but not both. I like everything else you really seem to want people to become archers . Mounts I think will always be clunky but we have already had them in game and we don't seem to want to get rid of them so I guess they stay. I like them though and I think it will throw a crazy twist to the game. What are the price basics on Mounts and the skill basics for mounted training? I might have more later I have to go (I'm in school).